Webu Sayadaw's Meditation Method - Plausible?

S M, modified 1 Year ago at 1/9/23 6:35 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/9/23 6:31 PM

Webu Sayadaw's Meditation Method - Plausible?

Posts: 11 Join Date: 12/30/22 Recent Posts
With the help from the DhO, I've been inspired to pick-up anapanasati again and thought about doing some research about how the Venerable Webu Sayadaw practiced this method considering that many claimed he reached arahantship doing so. However, I hardly found any information and what little was there was duplicated word-for-word across many sites. He has some discourses scattered throughout different areas including on accesstoinsight.org but after much searching, I found that the majority of his teachings are consolidated in the books The Way to Ultimate Calm and Selected Discourses of Webu Sayadaw. Both books consist of transcripts of discourses spoken to lay disciples, the latter of which is the more updated version of the two and will be referred to henceforth. Since I haven't seen this elsewhere and was curious to learn it, I read and took plenty of notes in order to document his meditation technique in hopes of sharing this to the world to shed some light on how this man practices and teaches. What I learned surprised me and I hope you learn something as well.

WEBU SAYADAW'S MEDITATION TECHNIQUE
Webu Sayadaw's meditation technique can be summarized by four main points and documented via notes I've selected from his discourses. He repeats much of his material as he stresses practicing the basics, and although there were many other good quotes, I've tried to consolidate everything to keep things short. The four main points I've recollected are the following: anapanasati is utilized, anapanasati is constantly practiced during all activities, vipassana is practiced, and utmost effort is utilized each day.

  1. ANAPANASATI IS UTILIZED
    As most know, Webu Sayadaw practices anapanasati wherein the meditator concentrates on the sensations of air coming in and out through the nose around the nose-tip or upper lip area.

    - "'This is a shortcut to Nibbána,' he said, 'anyone can use it. It stands up to investigation and is in accordance with the teachings of the Buddha as conserved in the scriptures. It is the straight path to Nibbána.'" (page 12)

    - Lobha is wanting and dosa is dislike:
    "But, of course, if lobha and dosa have to arise, let them arise. If we are practicing the teachings of the Buddha, can they affect us? While we are practicing Ánánapána meditation, lobha and dosa don’t get an opportunity to possess our minds." (page 51)

    - "It is impossible to teach every aspect of the Dhamma. But if you keep your attention focused on the spot and are aware from moment to moment, then you will reach your goal. The Buddha did teach this, and the wise people of old did reach their goal by this practice, and yet there are many things the Buddha realized that are not contained in this. But you can reach your goal if you keep knowing in-breath and out-breath at the spot. You will become really happy." (page 70)

    - "If you keep your attention focused on the spot and on the in-breath and the out-breath, the whole of the Tipitaka is there." (page 81)

    - "D" stands for "Disciple":
    "S: When you concentrate at the spot there is understanding, and ignorance has been banned. Now, if we continue to concentrate on the spot, will ignorance spring back up again?
    D: No, sir, it won’t.
    S: Yes, you see, you have to establish understanding in this way. You have found it now; don’t allow it to escape again. Can you again suddenly be overpowered by delusion if your understanding keeps growing moment by moment?" (page 84)

    - "We can know mind and matter simultaneously. And what will we get from this awareness? We will be able to understand the characteristic of their behaviour. You needn’t do anything special. Just practice as you are practicing now. Keep your attention focused on the spot and as you gain the ability to keep your attention with the awareness of breathing and the spot, mind and matter will talk to you." (page 99)

    - "The nostrils are the sensitive part of the nose which the out-breaths and the in-breaths touch as they come out or go in. In other words, the wind element or element of motion comes into contact with the nostrils, producing a sensation. Both the wind element and the nostrils are rúpa, and it is náma that knows the contact or sensation. Ask no one what rúpa and náma are. Be mindful of the nostrils. One knows the sensation of breathing in. One knows the sensation of breathing out. Keep on knowing the in-breath and the out-breath and there will be no chance for greed, hatred, and delusion (lobha, dosa, and moha) to arise. The fires of greed, hatred, and delusion are extinguished and the result is calm and peace of mind." (page 210)

  2. ANAPANASATI IS PRACTICED DURING ALL ACTIVITIES THROUGHOUT THE DAY
    Whether sitting, standing, walking, laying, eating, drinking, working, cleaning, etc. the meditator ardently stays mindful of performing anapanasati.

    - Whenever he gives talks, Webu Sayadaw states seven things, the last two of which are:
    "(6) From the moment we are born to the moment we die, there is the in-breath and the out-breath. This is easy for everybody to understand. Every time we breathe in or out, the breath touches near the nostrils. Every time it touches we should be aware of it.
    (7) While we are walking, working, doing anything, we should always be aware of the in-breath and out-breath." (page 11)

    - "This technique of being aware of in-breath and out-breath can be practiced anywhere. You can practice it while you are alone or in company, while you are sitting, walking, standing, or lying down. Wherever you are, you can practice it." (page 52)

    - "To fulfil our duties is part of moral conduct. If you don’t fulfil your duties, your conduct is not perfect. At the same time that you fulfil your duties, admonishing your children, for example, you can train yourself in the awareness of the spot. Isn’t this wonderful? Now you have the time to train yourselves in both moral conduct and understanding." (page 73)

    - "The wise people of old practiced the teachings without allowing their efforts to diminish in any of the four postures, and they kept up such a perfect continuity of awareness that there never was any gap. You too have to practice in this way. The disciples of the Buddha established awareness of the spot and then did not allow their minds to shift to another object." (page 78)

    - "Be mindful of the present continuously. If you can keep on knowing the present for twenty-four hours at a stretch, the good results will be evident. If you cannot be mindful of what is taking place at every moment continuously, you will fail to notice what happens in a flash of lightning and find yourself on the debit side." (page 210)
  3. VIPASSANA IS PRACTICED, NOT SAMATHA
    This is the biggest surprise, but Webu Sayadaw did not perform or teach samatha meditation, despite the nature of anapanasati. The sensations of breathing are contemplated and understood with the 3C's (anicca, dukkha, anatta) at all times. Hence, since this is vipassana, one can then say that the objects of meditation then become the 3C's as practiced via anapanasati.

    - From the introduction:
    "Though ánápána-sati is basically a way of developing samatha (tranquillity of mind), samádhi (concentration of mind to one-pointedness), and jhána (absorption states), Venerable Webu Sayádaw said that when concentration is developed to a sufficient degree, the meditator automatically gains insight into the three characteristics of nature, anicca, dukkha, and anattá, if his mind is open to recognize them." (page 9)

    - "While we feel the touch of air, we know that there are only mind and matter. We know for ourselves that there is no “I,” no other person, no man and woman, and we realize for ourselves that what the Buddha said is indeed true. We needn’t ask others. While we know in-breath and outbreath, there is no I or attá." (page 41)

    - "S: It is good if you think of anicca as a breath comes to an end. If you know anicca in this way, will you be able to attain Nibbána?
    D: Not yet, sir.
    S: So if you can’t get Nibbána yet, keep concentrating on the spot and you will come to know." (page 99)

    - "The continuous practice of this contemplation eliminates the notion of attá or self, and produces a clear vision or knowledge. This benefit is the result of momentary contemplation. Do not think it is not much. Do not think that nothing is known, that no benefit accrues during meditation. Such benefits can be gained only during the Buddha Sásana. While meditating, forget about food and other necessities. Strive with diligence for progress in gaining the insight that will end in the realization of knowledge of the path (magga-ñáóa), knowledge of the fruition state (phala ñáóa), and Nibbána." (page 213)

    - "Here, awareness means that the meditator takes note of the in-breath as it touches the nostrils and of the out-breath as it touches the nostrils. As breathing is continuous, so awareness must be continuous too. Only then can awareness be properly called vipassaná meditation." (page 213)

    - "14. As meditators notice the swiftly changing process of appearance and disappearance of contact sensations at the nostrils, concentrated insight (vipassaná-samádhi) develops in due course, that is to say, after a considerable length of time. The concentration developed in this way becomes more and more intense until a meditator becomes aware of swiftly sweeping changes all over the body.
    15. When these swiftly sweeping changes are seen with insight, the characteristic of anicca becomes most obvious, and accordingly the characteristics of dukkha and anattá are also seen. It is not necessary to utter them by word of mouth. Vipassaná meditation means being mindful of what actually happens. Mindfulness develops day by day, and consequently, meditators gain penetrating insight." (page 213)
  4. UTMOST EFFORT IS UTILIZED EVERYDAY
    Lastly, Webu Sayadaw stresses putting in all the effort you have into attaining Nibbana.

    - From the introduction:
    "Venerable Webu Sayádaw is said to have followed this practice of never lying down all his life. He taught that effort was the key to success, not only in worldly undertakings, but also in meditation, and that sleeping was a waste of time." (page 13)

    - "You see, if one aspires to omniscient Buddhahood, one has to fulfil the perfections, the ten páramìs in this way, without ever taking a break, without ever resting. Otherwise one can’t attain Buddhahood. Do you understand? One never rests, one never becomes lax, but works on the ten perfections all the time." (page 105)

    - "Even though your limbs ache, do not give up. Know that wise people of the past have walked on the same path. You have to work. If you only talk about putting forth effort, you will not attain anything. Only if you meditate can you come to understand." (page 113)

    - "If you practice without sleeping, you are establishing full effort and are always keeping your attention firmly fixed on the object, day and night. If you practice in this way, your morality, your concentration and control over the mind, and your insight and wisdom will become stronger and stronger. They will develop from moment to moment." (page 129)

    - "You have the teachings, the technique. All you need now is effort. And why do you need effort? Because during meditation the enemies will come to disturb you. Keep your attention on this small spot. If your limbs ache, work so that you reach the state where there is no aching. When you are drowsy, work so that you reach the state where there is no drowsiness." (page 139)

    - "Yes, yes, you must work hard, strive diligently. Working means that you must meditate at times, and then, at times, you will want to take rest." (page 177)

    - "Don’t be distracted by other things. Do just one thing: be forbearing. Do you understand? No matter how much the people living with you upset you, just practice this fully for yourself." (page 186)

    - "There are twenty-four hours in a day. If your awareness can be continuous for twenty-four hours, the beneficial results will be very clear. If possible, the ascetic practice of always sitting (nesajjika-dhutaòga) should be performed. What the Buddha teaches is not suffering but the cessation of suffering. In the Buddha’s lifetime, those who performed this ascetic practice of always sitting were healthier and lived longer. If you give in to sleepiness and go to sleep, you are likely to sleep forever in the round of rebirths (saísára). If you wish to sleep, go to that place where no sleep is necessary." (page 213)
COMMENTS/CONCERNS/QUESTIONS
So after analyzing his technique, I can't help but feel that this method is similar to the Mahasi method. Instead of noting everything, you're being mindful of the breathing sensations where ever you are. Combine this with the striving and the "dry" insight approach and you have two similar techniques, but I could be wrong. I remember reading Ian And's response from this thread where he states that Mahasi developed his method for lay people who didn't have the time to train the jhanas, and I'm wondering if Webu did something similar except make it even more easy. Furthermore, I'm wondering if Mahasi's method simply overshadowed Webu's method and appealed to a much larger audience since these two were practicing at around the same time and found no continuation of lineage for Webu Sayadaw who was purportedly one of the great Theravada teachers of the 20th century. Anyway, I have the following questions I would love to discuss with the more advanced practitioners here to see how they feel about this approach and whether this is something even viable as a practice.

  1.  Is his method plausible?
    • Do you see of any drawbacks to this practice?
    • Were there any disciples of him? If so, where are they? Has anyone ever achieved progress using this approach?
      Sayagyi U Ba Khin was seemingly the only prominent person that was taught by Webu Sayadaw but U Ba Khin doesn't even practice or teach anapana in the way Webu Sayadaw practices. The man who translated all of Webu Sayadaw's discourses into the referenced books was my first teacher (Roger Bischoff) and I remember asking him if we can practice anapana while walking or standing to which he discouraged immediately. I'm not aware of a single person who teaches or practices the "Webu method".
    • Can one navigate the Nanas by just focusing on the sensations at the nose tip?
      This question would imply if progress can be achieved using this approach, and I'm only asking because I haven't gotten past A&P with the Mahasi method and so I'm unfamiliar about how sensations feel in the later stages (i.e., not feeling any breathing)
  2. His claim of hardly ever sleeping or lying down - is this even possible?
    I'm inspired to try meditating for much longer periods after reading the book, but are there other practitioners who don't need sleep? Doesn't even sound humanly possible…
  3. Where in the suttas does it say the elders were practicing this type of meditation?
    Trying to fact check the suttas and I can't find any proof.
Despite some minor concerns, I would love to try this method out for my practice and see where it takes me. I would like to at least give it a shot and report back to others on how I feel the "Webu method" works out in practice.

EDIT 1: included hyperlink, clarification
EDIT 2: formatting
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Ben V, modified 1 Year ago at 1/9/23 9:24 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/9/23 9:24 PM

RE: Webu Sayadaw's Meditation Method - Plausible?

Posts: 417 Join Date: 3/3/15 Recent Posts
I read and often re-read the works you mention about Webu Sayadaw, especially in my Goenka years long ago. I can only answer and comment on one of your questions though: Can one navigate the Nanas by just focusing on the sensations at the nose tip?

By focusing a lot on the nose tip and touch of the breath there, it has often led me to experience extremely rapid popping and changing vibrations there, which at times spread around the face as well. In one of my first Mahasi retreats with Bhante Khippapanno, I reported to him this experience and he told me that was nana (though he didn't say which nana). Another teacher in this lineage told me I was entering insight territory when I reported the same experience during retreat. Another one told me that at one point the vibrations will spread to the entire body just by practicing with the tip of the nose.

Even Mahasi Sayadaw, in 'Manual of Insight' (Translation of Vipassana Metta Foundation), explains on three different occasions (p.129, p. 175, and p.251 to 255), how focusing on the breath at the nostrils can develop vipassana insight.

So I'm of the opinion that the answer to this question of yours is yes.

​​​​​​​All the best with your practice.
George S, modified 1 Year ago at 1/10/23 5:38 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/10/23 5:38 PM

RE: Webu Sayadaw's Meditation Method - Plausible?

Posts: 2722 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Annapanasiti definitely works, but Webu level of intensity is hardcore. Like he says, it you could only practice it for 24 hours you would see results ... potentially quite dramatic results! Why not try it?
S M, modified 1 Year ago at 1/10/23 8:18 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/10/23 8:14 PM

RE: Webu Sayadaw's Meditation Method - Plausible?

Posts: 11 Join Date: 12/30/22 Recent Posts
Ben V.
I read and often re-read the works you mention about Webu Sayadaw, especially in my Goenka years long ago. I can only answer and comment on one of your questions though: Can one navigate the Nanas by just focusing on the sensations at the nose tip?

By focusing a lot on the nose tip and touch of the breath there, it has often led me to experience extremely rapid popping and changing vibrations there, which at times spread around the face as well. In one of my first Mahasi retreats with Bhante Khippapanno, I reported to him this experience and he told me that was nana (though he didn't say which nana). Another teacher in this lineage told me I was entering insight territory when I reported the same experience during retreat. Another one told me that at one point the vibrations will spread to the entire body just by practicing with the tip of the nose.

Even Mahasi Sayadaw, in 'Manual of Insight' (Translation of Vipassana Metta Foundation), explains on three different occasions (p.129, p. 175, and p.251 to 255), how focusing on the breath at the nostrils can develop vipassana insight.

So I'm of the opinion that the answer to this question of yours is yes.

All the best with your practice.
Thank you for these references - I've looked them up in my copy and found them very helpful. I never understood why focusing on the nose-tip was discouraged since all phenomena can be discerned with the 3C's. I've always been able to concentrate more deeply using the nose-tip and I had the deepest levels of concentration in a long time last night trying this method.

George S.
Annapanasiti definitely works, but Webu level of intensity is hardcore. Like he says, it you could only practice it for 24 hours you would see results ... potentially quite dramatic results! Why not try it?

I can say that practicing this "Webu Method" has brough another dimension of mindfulness to my daily life that Mahasi noting hasn't done. I've been able to stay more unaffected by distractions since with Mahasi you're trying to be mindful of literally everything and I found it very mentally taxing (a common problem I've heard). Possibly wishful thinking or self-fulfilling prophecy but I'm going to continue this and see where it takes my practice. I will try to meditate and get minimal sleep to emulate this 24-hour striving he mentions.

On another note, I did some research on his reference to the practice of nesajjika-dhutaòga, or always sitting. I found this website here where it explains that this was an ascetic practice. Also, the Visudhimagga (Bhikku Nanamoli) talks about this somewhat in Chapter II, 73 on page 72:
73. xiii. The sitter’s practice is undertaken with one of the following statements: “I refuse lying down” or “I undertake the sitter’s practice.”
The sitter can get up in any one of three watches of the night and walk up and down: for lying down is the only posture not allowed. These are the directions. [79]
74. This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap [to prevent falling while asleep].17 The medium one is allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a “five-limb” and a “seven-limb.” A “five-limb” is [a chair] made with [four legs and] a support for the back. A “seven-limb” is one made with [four legs,] a support for the back and an [arm] support on each side. They made that, it seems, for the Elder Pìþhábhaya (Abhaya of the Chair). The elder became a non-returner, and then attained Nibbána.
As soon as any one of these three lies down, his ascetic practice is broken. This is the breach in this instance.
75. The benefits are these. The mental shackle described thus, “He dwells indulging in the pleasure of lying prone, the pleasure of lolling, the pleasure of torpor” (M I 102), is severed; his state is suitable for devotion to any meditation subject; his deportment inspires confidence; his state favours the application of energy; he develops the right practice.
76. The adept that can place crosswise
His feet to rest upon his thighs
And sit with back erect shall make
Foul Mára’s evil heart to quake.
No more in supine joys to plump
And wallow in lethargic dump;
Who sits for rest and finds it good
Shines forth in the Ascetics’ Wood.
The happiness and bliss it brings
Has naught to do with worldly things;
So must the sitter’s vow befit
The manners of a man of wit.
This is the commentary on the undertaking, directions, grades, breach, and benefits, in the case of the sitter’s practice.
I'm curious to see how bad sleeping with no back support can be for one's spine. I'm not sure if I'm ready to come close to trying this but I can understand the reasons for utilizing this practice. My spine is already compromised, but very interesting read.