New Mahasi translation--Manual of Insight - Discussion
Thank you for posting that, Joel. It was totally worth the read if only for the pleasure of hearing a western Dharma teacher talk about a student attaining to first path 
Do you know if there's some preview version available online for those of us too impatient to wait until it's out in print?
Do you know if there's some preview version available online for those of us too impatient to wait until it's out in print?
neko:
Yash C:
It's available online here
https://www.scribd.com/doc/177388928/Mahasi-Manual-of-Insight-Cha-5
https://www.scribd.com/doc/177388928/Mahasi-Manual-of-Insight-Cha-5
It seems like one has to pay to download it. Am I doing it wrong?
My bad...Here's a better source
http://docslide.us/documents/insight-manual-cha-5.html
When downloading from docslide, it seems the whole filename is enclosed in single quotes ie. 'docslide.us_insight-manual-cha-5.pdf'
You might have to remove the quotes so the the filename is, docslide.us_insight-manual-cha-5.pdf
I hope that makes sense...
Love & metta,
Yash
Edit: I realised I can just attach the pdf file here. Here it is
Dream Walker:
Here is the Update - as of todays post April 5th 2015
I Emailed Steve and asked how the translation was going....this was his reply -
Steve Armstrong:
Hello, Dhamma Geeks, Dhamma overground denizens and other on-line forum followers,
You may be happy to hear that in December 2014, Wisdom Publications accepted our translated ms of Mahasi Sayadaw's 2-vol. Manual of Insight
for publication. They agreed it will be an important contribution to
the Dhamma literature available in the West. They indicated their intent
to publish it in hardcover with paper jacket and cloth bookmark (their
best quality), along with the 6 Appendices of abhidhamma material that I
created that are necessary to understand what is referred in the ms. as
well as the Pali-English/English-Pali glossaries we prepared and will
also include the 599 Romanized Pali quotes referenced in the ms.
I was told the expected publication date will be Spring 2016.
I thank you for your interest in having this material available for your guidance.
Sincerely,Steve Armstrong
You may be happy to hear that in December 2014, Wisdom Publications accepted our translated ms of Mahasi Sayadaw's 2-vol. Manual of Insight
for publication. They agreed it will be an important contribution to
the Dhamma literature available in the West. They indicated their intent
to publish it in hardcover with paper jacket and cloth bookmark (their
best quality), along with the 6 Appendices of abhidhamma material that I
created that are necessary to understand what is referred in the ms. as
well as the Pali-English/English-Pali glossaries we prepared and will
also include the 599 Romanized Pali quotes referenced in the ms.
I was told the expected publication date will be Spring 2016.
I thank you for your interest in having this material available for your guidance.
Sincerely,Steve Armstrong
From Amazon.com Available May 17, 2016
http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Insight-Mahasi-Sayadaw/dp/1614292779
Manual of Insight Hardcover– May 17, 2016
by Mahasi Sayadaw(Author), Steve Armstrong(Editor), Vipassana Metta FoundationTranslation Committee(Translator)
The most comprehensive manual of the practice of insight meditation (vipassana), written by one of its foremost 20th century proponents, is translated into English for the first time.
Manual of Insight
is the magnum opus of Mahasi Sayadaw, one of the originators of the
“vipassana movement” that has swept through the Buddhist world over the
last hundred years. The manual presents a comprehensive overview of the
practice of insight meditation, including the foundational aspects of
ethical self-discipline, understanding the philosophical framework for
the practice, and developing basic concentration and mindfulness. It
culminates with an in-depth exploration of the various types of insight
and spiritual fruits that the practice yields.
by Mahasi Sayadaw(Author), Steve Armstrong(Editor), Vipassana Metta FoundationTranslation Committee(Translator)
The most comprehensive manual of the practice of insight meditation (vipassana), written by one of its foremost 20th century proponents, is translated into English for the first time.
Manual of Insight
is the magnum opus of Mahasi Sayadaw, one of the originators of the
“vipassana movement” that has swept through the Buddhist world over the
last hundred years. The manual presents a comprehensive overview of the
practice of insight meditation, including the foundational aspects of
ethical self-discipline, understanding the philosophical framework for
the practice, and developing basic concentration and mindfulness. It
culminates with an in-depth exploration of the various types of insight
and spiritual fruits that the practice yields.
Psi:
"Is this even the same book??"
Psi
re: Dream Walker (5/28/16 10:50 AM as a reply to CJMacie)
The last post was more factual textual analysis, comparing the 1984 and 2016 translations. Here are more personal reactions (possible biased):
Again, from page xxiii (Steve Armstrong's preface):
"In 2000 I learned that Mahasi Sayadaw's comprehensive and authoritative Manual of Insight had never been translated into English."
How did he learn, determine that? Someone told him? Whatever way, it's clearly based in ignorance. Another translation exists, the translator's preface dated April 10,1984. Or is that dating perhaps considered fraudulent?
(I've sent an email query about this to meditate@maui.net, home base of Steve Armstrong's sangha, rather then, at first, try to address him personally. On page xxix of the book it says to goto www.mahasimanualofinsight.org to see a page of corrections or to report "errors", but there appears – at this time -- nothing of the sort at that URL.)
Page xxvii:
"This Manual of Insight offers a detailed description of the theory and practice of mindfulness that leads to insight knowledge and the realization of nibbana that is unavailable in contemporary English-language Dhamma writings."
Is that an intentional, or just incidental slight on the extensive writings of, for instance,Thanissaro Bhikkhu, and many others?
Page xxix:
"The inclusion of [1] copious, accurately cited sources in the Pali Canon and [2] detailed supplementary abhidhamma materials within this book sets it clearly apart from the majority of Western or non-Burmese books on the subject."
1) The 1984 translation shows the Pali citations, with clear indication of sources; were they erroneous?
2) That material does look very interesting (to my abhidhamma-leaning mind) – especially the huge sheet of charts (in a pocket inside the back cover). Daniel Ingram (author of similar charts) might find these interesting.
"We are grateful for the guidance of the editors at Wisdom who have helped us to strike a happy balance between a very faithful translation of Mahasi Sayadaw's writing in his own voice and smooth readability in English."
This confirms what I've seen so far in textual comparison – the original has been to some extent compromised to suit Western (i.e. IM/VM?) sensibilities. One can't help but notice how, up-front, Sharon Salzberg and Jack Kornfield are prominently quoted in the advertising; and the book's two Forwards, by Joseph Goldstein and Daniel Goleman – the latter (some best-selling psychologist celebrity) sounding quite a mushroomy psychological tone (a perfect example of Than-Geoff's 'Buddhist Romanticism').
re: Psi (5/28/16 1:18 PM as a reply to Dream Walker; and 5/28/16 10:13 PM as areply to Psi)
"The New Translation is far easier, in my opinion, to understand, and derive Wisdom and Instruction from."
Granted, much "easier" to read, but are the "Wisdom" and "Instruction" from the two versions the same? (A bias perhaps surfacing on my part tothe recurrent theme in secular and pragmatic dharma that there must be an easier, therefore better way… oh well.)
"Yet, it still covers covers the same content. If that makes sense..."
Looks like you might sense the problem also – what makes the content the "same" (other than the original Burmese text) ?
It is, though, something of a game-change to see the IM/VM (aka mushroom farm) establishment dangling its toes in more "hardcore" dharma. Maybe Daniel's (and others') efforts are getting through? Or a defensive ploy to maintain authority…
The last post was more factual textual analysis, comparing the 1984 and 2016 translations. Here are more personal reactions (possible biased):
Again, from page xxiii (Steve Armstrong's preface):
"In 2000 I learned that Mahasi Sayadaw's comprehensive and authoritative Manual of Insight had never been translated into English."
How did he learn, determine that? Someone told him? Whatever way, it's clearly based in ignorance. Another translation exists, the translator's preface dated April 10,1984. Or is that dating perhaps considered fraudulent?
(I've sent an email query about this to meditate@maui.net, home base of Steve Armstrong's sangha, rather then, at first, try to address him personally. On page xxix of the book it says to goto www.mahasimanualofinsight.org to see a page of corrections or to report "errors", but there appears – at this time -- nothing of the sort at that URL.)
Page xxvii:
"This Manual of Insight offers a detailed description of the theory and practice of mindfulness that leads to insight knowledge and the realization of nibbana that is unavailable in contemporary English-language Dhamma writings."
Is that an intentional, or just incidental slight on the extensive writings of, for instance,Thanissaro Bhikkhu, and many others?
Page xxix:
"The inclusion of [1] copious, accurately cited sources in the Pali Canon and [2] detailed supplementary abhidhamma materials within this book sets it clearly apart from the majority of Western or non-Burmese books on the subject."
1) The 1984 translation shows the Pali citations, with clear indication of sources; were they erroneous?
2) That material does look very interesting (to my abhidhamma-leaning mind) – especially the huge sheet of charts (in a pocket inside the back cover). Daniel Ingram (author of similar charts) might find these interesting.
"We are grateful for the guidance of the editors at Wisdom who have helped us to strike a happy balance between a very faithful translation of Mahasi Sayadaw's writing in his own voice and smooth readability in English."
This confirms what I've seen so far in textual comparison – the original has been to some extent compromised to suit Western (i.e. IM/VM?) sensibilities. One can't help but notice how, up-front, Sharon Salzberg and Jack Kornfield are prominently quoted in the advertising; and the book's two Forwards, by Joseph Goldstein and Daniel Goleman – the latter (some best-selling psychologist celebrity) sounding quite a mushroomy psychological tone (a perfect example of Than-Geoff's 'Buddhist Romanticism').
re: Psi (5/28/16 1:18 PM as a reply to Dream Walker; and 5/28/16 10:13 PM as areply to Psi)
"The New Translation is far easier, in my opinion, to understand, and derive Wisdom and Instruction from."
Granted, much "easier" to read, but are the "Wisdom" and "Instruction" from the two versions the same? (A bias perhaps surfacing on my part tothe recurrent theme in secular and pragmatic dharma that there must be an easier, therefore better way… oh well.)
"Yet, it still covers covers the same content. If that makes sense..."
Looks like you might sense the problem also – what makes the content the "same" (other than the original Burmese text) ?
It is, though, something of a game-change to see the IM/VM (aka mushroom farm) establishment dangling its toes in more "hardcore" dharma. Maybe Daniel's (and others') efforts are getting through? Or a defensive ploy to maintain authority…
CJMacie:
re: Dream Walker (5/28/16 10:50 AM as a reply to CJMacie)
Again, from page xxiii (Steve Armstrong's preface):
"In 2000 I learned that Mahasi Sayadaw's comprehensive and authoritative Manual of Insight had never been translated into English."
How did he learn, determine that? Someone told him? Whatever way, it's clearly based in ignorance. Another translation exists, the translator's preface dated April 10,1984. Or is that dating perhaps considered fraudulent?
Again, from page xxiii (Steve Armstrong's preface):
"In 2000 I learned that Mahasi Sayadaw's comprehensive and authoritative Manual of Insight had never been translated into English."
How did he learn, determine that? Someone told him? Whatever way, it's clearly based in ignorance. Another translation exists, the translator's preface dated April 10,1984. Or is that dating perhaps considered fraudulent?
Page xxvii:
"This Manual of Insight offers a detailed description of the theory and practice of mindfulness that leads to insight knowledge and the realization of nibbana that is unavailable in contemporary English-language Dhamma writings."
Is that an intentional, or just incidental slight on the extensive writings of, for instance,Thanissaro Bhikkhu, and many others?
"We are grateful for the guidance of the editors at Wisdom who have helped us to strike a happy balance between a very faithful translation of Mahasi Sayadaw's writing in his own voice and smooth readability in English."
This confirms what I've seen so far in textual comparison – the original has been to some extent compromised to suit Western (i.e. IM/VM?) sensibilities. One can't help but notice how, up-front, Sharon Salzberg and Jack Kornfield are prominently quoted in the advertising; and the book's two Forwards, by Joseph Goldstein and Daniel Goleman – the latter (some best-selling psychologist celebrity) sounding quite a mushroomy psychological tone (a perfect example of Than-Geoff's 'Buddhist Romanticism').
re: Psi (5/28/16 1:18 PM as a reply to Dream Walker; and 5/28/16 10:13 PM as areply to Psi)
"The New Translation is far easier, in my opinion, to understand, and derive Wisdom and Instruction from."
Granted, much "easier" to read, but are the "Wisdom" and "Instruction" from the two versions the same? (A bias perhaps surfacing on my part tothe recurrent theme in secular and pragmatic dharma that there must be an easier, therefore better way… oh well.)
And, I would like to add , alot of times a deeper level of Dhamma opens up.
So, Easier, may not necessarily be Deeper, as far as Understanding is concerned.
"Yet, it still covers covers the same content. If that makes sense..."
Looks like you might sense the problem also – what makes the content the "same" (other than the original Burmese text) ?
Looks like you might sense the problem also – what makes the content the "same" (other than the original Burmese text) ?
In other words, Mahasi Sayadaw's teaching seems to come through despite the various translations, but then again, the actual practice goes beyond words, either Burmese or English, at a certain point anyway. At some point on the Path one has to switch the practicing away from just the thought sensations and work at the level of the nerve signals and glandular secretions, sorting even those as to what is skillful and unskillful. So, from that vantage, language does not even work, except in a post hoc fashion anyway. Hope that makes sense.
It is, though, something of a game-change to see the IM/VM (aka mushroom farm) establishment dangling its toes in more "hardcore" dharma. Maybe Daniel's (and others') efforts are getting through?
Or a defensive ploy to maintain authority…
Psi