Difference between relaxation and letting-go - Discussion
Difference between relaxation and letting-go
PP, modified 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 9:18 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 9:14 AM
Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Posts: 376 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
Lately, I've found that there's a difference between relaxation and letting-go. In the first case, there's a (conscious or unconscious) intention to relax a tension, triggered by a gross or subtle aversion to physical, mental or emotional phenomena. That is, it's not a "good" (ultimate) relaxation, as there's in the shadows some kind of explicit or implicit ideal of how things should be. Because of my Taijiquan background, I have deeply ingrained the process of spotting tensions and releasing them. This practice may be good as a start but later a hindrance, regarding meditation.
Instead, I've found that letting-go is rather the opposite, being aware when tensions start to rise, note the aversion and the clinging towards releasing it, and just watch/notice patiently how the tension slowly evolves, arises and passes away. In that sense, I see with a different eyes how some meditation practices forbid any physical movement. Perhaps, it's meant to force the yogi to face this aversion and surrender completely. Also, the mere act of breathing involves some kind of tension. If relaxed enough, it's surprisingly longer than expected that the gap between the outbreath and inbreath, and that the inbreath happens on its own, that you can watch the breath happen without interferences (for a while).
I know the above may sound sketchy, but I want to kick-start the discussion. I would love to hear further practical insights about the subject from fellow forum members.
Instead, I've found that letting-go is rather the opposite, being aware when tensions start to rise, note the aversion and the clinging towards releasing it, and just watch/notice patiently how the tension slowly evolves, arises and passes away. In that sense, I see with a different eyes how some meditation practices forbid any physical movement. Perhaps, it's meant to force the yogi to face this aversion and surrender completely. Also, the mere act of breathing involves some kind of tension. If relaxed enough, it's surprisingly longer than expected that the gap between the outbreath and inbreath, and that the inbreath happens on its own, that you can watch the breath happen without interferences (for a while).
I know the above may sound sketchy, but I want to kick-start the discussion. I would love to hear further practical insights about the subject from fellow forum members.
Russell , modified 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 9:52 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 9:52 AM
RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Posts: 92 Join Date: 10/19/11 Recent Posts
You cannot DO surrender. Trying to surrender/let go is still doing something. Even doing nothing is doing something. You can set up yourself for surrender but the actual total letting go is not something you can do with intention. Look up Shinzen Young's 'Do Nothing' video on YouTube. However, this wasn't that useful to me until late 3rd path territory. But everyone is different.
PP, modified 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 11:42 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 11:42 AM
RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Posts: 376 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
Hi Russell, I'll check up Shinzen Young's 'Do Nothing' video. In fact, I don't try to set up the letting-go, it just happens. I was trying to point out that the intention to relax is far from letting-go. But your words "Even doing nothing is doing something" are intriguing. Isn't awareness doing something too? How can you let go completely and still not be aware of it? Or is it something that you can recall but not experience, like a cessation?
PP, modified 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 12:08 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 12:08 PM
RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Posts: 376 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
Now I get clearer what you meant. Shinzen Young's instructions for the "Do Nothing" Approach are:
1. Let whatever happens happen.
2. As you are aware of an intention to control you attention, drop that intention.
1. Let whatever happens happen.
2. As you are aware of an intention to control you attention, drop that intention.
M N, modified 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 12:45 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 7/23/13 12:39 PM
RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Posts: 210 Join Date: 3/3/12 Recent Posts
I've found that awareness brought to a tension is enought to have it released.
However, if you fix your attention to a tension, it might stay there for longer, 'cause the act of putting attention to something is very much of an interference to the natural flow of awareness/energies/tensions moving inside us.
I've found tension to be complex, whole-bodied phenomena; in my practice I noticed that if I stay with a tension, seeing how that naturally draws attention to other places in the body, and staying with this fluxing process the thing eventually resolves itself in a way that is more complete and more efficient that trying to release it at will, or trying to see it passing away, and it's still pure insight practice, btw, 'cause the thing happens by itself.
Not sure that's what you asked, not sure if that's what you've already been doing... whatever, I wrote it
Bye!
EDIT
Also, I noticed that if I let a part of my awareness to remain at the crown, much of the process goes on underneath the threshold of awareness, but the simple fact that awareness is open allows the releasing process to happen quite quickly, because it seems to me that tensions have a way of resolving themselves when they hit the crown, like if that was some kind of a point of balance if the energetic body or something...
However, if you fix your attention to a tension, it might stay there for longer, 'cause the act of putting attention to something is very much of an interference to the natural flow of awareness/energies/tensions moving inside us.
I've found tension to be complex, whole-bodied phenomena; in my practice I noticed that if I stay with a tension, seeing how that naturally draws attention to other places in the body, and staying with this fluxing process the thing eventually resolves itself in a way that is more complete and more efficient that trying to release it at will, or trying to see it passing away, and it's still pure insight practice, btw, 'cause the thing happens by itself.
Not sure that's what you asked, not sure if that's what you've already been doing... whatever, I wrote it
Bye!
EDIT
Also, I noticed that if I let a part of my awareness to remain at the crown, much of the process goes on underneath the threshold of awareness, but the simple fact that awareness is open allows the releasing process to happen quite quickly, because it seems to me that tensions have a way of resolving themselves when they hit the crown, like if that was some kind of a point of balance if the energetic body or something...
Dauphin Supple Chirp, modified 11 Years ago at 7/24/13 6:41 AM
Created 11 Years ago at 7/24/13 6:41 AM
RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Posts: 154 Join Date: 3/15/11 Recent Posts
Along the lines of what you said, I have noticed a difference between two different ways of looking at the breath:
Sometimes it feels like there is only this one little thing, the breath, which I can't totally shutdown, and therefore my existence continues. Then I feel happy because I know this body is going to stop breathing sooner or later, and I'll finally be gone.
Reality, of course, is different: Truly letting go means to breathe and have no aversion or clinging to it. Maybe a belief in rebirth makes a difference here, because one understands that, with the breakup of this body, if there is still desire or aversion left, experience will continue. However, if you can get to the point of no (overt or lingering) desire or aversion, your body will continue, then cease, and then you won't get a new human body afterwards.
[I haven't made much, if any, progress past 1st path.]
Sometimes it feels like there is only this one little thing, the breath, which I can't totally shutdown, and therefore my existence continues. Then I feel happy because I know this body is going to stop breathing sooner or later, and I'll finally be gone.
Reality, of course, is different: Truly letting go means to breathe and have no aversion or clinging to it. Maybe a belief in rebirth makes a difference here, because one understands that, with the breakup of this body, if there is still desire or aversion left, experience will continue. However, if you can get to the point of no (overt or lingering) desire or aversion, your body will continue, then cease, and then you won't get a new human body afterwards.
[I haven't made much, if any, progress past 1st path.]
PP, modified 11 Years ago at 7/24/13 8:41 PM
Created 11 Years ago at 7/24/13 8:41 PM
RE: Difference between relaxation and letting-go
Posts: 376 Join Date: 3/21/12 Recent Posts
Thanks for your input guys. I understand I made a mistake regarding terminology, as "letting-go" is a whole method towards enlightenment, whereas I was using it towards dealing with hindrances to reaching jhana. The critics still apply, but I guess the perfection of the practice needed is much lower.
Thanks again!
PD: Mario, I'll try centering at the crown spot and report back in the near future.
Thanks again!
PD: Mario, I'll try centering at the crown spot and report back in the near future.