Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/4/14 2:24 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry (D Z) Dhru Val 1/4/14 12:32 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/4/14 1:14 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry (D Z) Dhru Val 1/4/14 2:02 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Rick M 1/4/14 7:20 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Daemon Shockley 1/4/14 8:19 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/5/14 2:28 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/9/14 3:59 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry (D Z) Dhru Val 1/9/14 6:46 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/9/14 7:51 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry (D Z) Dhru Val 1/9/14 8:36 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/10/14 4:10 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Andrew Mayer 1/10/14 9:52 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/10/14 12:05 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Dream Walker 1/10/14 3:23 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Daemon Shockley 1/11/14 1:44 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/13/14 12:45 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Dream Walker 1/13/14 2:51 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Daemon Shockley 1/15/14 2:44 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Dream Walker 1/15/14 10:48 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/15/14 11:52 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Daemon Shockley 1/16/14 10:25 AM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry faraz ahmed 1/16/14 1:00 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Daemon Shockley 1/16/14 9:28 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Dream Walker 1/16/14 11:55 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Bailey . 1/13/14 6:08 PM
RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry Dream Walker 1/12/14 3:49 AM
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 2:24 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 2:24 AM

Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
I have seen how a few other members here
were able to note all the way to stream entry
and that's my goal too.
Want to achieve stream entry and so note my ass off.

I have begun noting practice recently Mahasi style,
but I am unable to note properly.

Say,when I start noting things dont seem to come up fast
and so I find that when an object, I have already noted disappears,
then I am waiting for the next object to come up.

and if another object comes up then I note that and I keep noting
that and then I am waiting again,when it goes.
some sensations feel stuck, so do i keep noting those?

I have also noticed that when I am noting at night, it causes
a kind of insomnia, where I am just laying around in bed
but unable to sleep.
noting seems to activate my mind and so I just do the letting be meditation
at night.

so,let me list my questions here:
1. What do I do when I am noting and things dont come up as fast?
2. is it okay if I dont do noting and just do letting be meditation at night?
since it activates my brain and causes sleeplessness.
3. any other advice to gain stream entry?
4.and if another object comes up then I note that and I keep noting
that and then I am waiting again,when it goes.
some sensations feel stuck, so do i keep noting those?
5. Am I supposed to note the whole day or should I just sit and note
for an hour or 2 everyday? which is better?

Sorry for so many questions, but I am new at this
and wanted some advice.
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(D Z) Dhru Val, modified 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 12:32 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 12:26 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 346 Join Date: 9/18/11 Recent Posts
faraz ahmed:

1. What do I do when I am noting and things dont come up as fast?


You need to build up your 'refresh rate' of noticing stuff.

While sitting...

1) Notice the fact that your body is touching the ground 'touching'.
2) Notice the fact that your back is erect 'sitting'.
3) Go back to notcing the fact that your body is touching the ground 'touching'

Again try to alternate attention between the awareness of 'sitting' and 'touching' as fast as possible.

Keep going faster and faster. You will realize that you can't have fabrications of both 'sitting' and 'touching' at once.

Do this till you are able to 'refresh' your awareness multiple times a second.

More details here (look under overbalanced concentration)...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/mahasi/wheel370.html

Once you can do that then start noting the rising and falling of breath. Rise, rise, rise, then fall, fall, fall.

Keep in mind that the gold standard of reality in Vipassana is only what is experienced in the moment.


2. is it okay if I dont do noting and just do letting be meditation at night?
since it activates my brain and causes sleeplessness.

Doesn't matter

3. any other advice to gain stream entry?


Decide to definitely achieve it. Maintain an outlook of openness and curiosity.

Take action. Do the stuff in #1 then post your experiences here.

So you can see what is working or what is not. And get more specific advice.

4.and if another object comes up then I note that and I keep noting
that and then I am waiting again,when it goes.
some sensations feel stuck, so do i keep noting those?


The sensation you are noting is not that important, it is important to keep refreshing your attention of the sensations. You should never be 'waiting', always be noting / retraining your attention on what is being experienced in this moment.

So you can note your breath rising and falling. As it rises, you should be able to refresh your attention on that sensation multiple times.

5. Am I supposed to note the whole day or should I just sit and note
for an hour or 2 everyday? which is better?


Do it whenever you can find time to sit. Don't worry about perfect posture, noise, clothing, concentration etc.

Just do your best. And be relentless in your investigation. Don't do things out of anger or fear.

I got A&P while meditating on a noisy subway ride. And 1st path while lying on my bed after unsuccessfully trying during meditation.
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 1:14 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 1:14 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
hmm,
thanks for the advice.

But I dont understand what you mean when you say:
refresh rate

or

refresh your attention.

could you explain what they mean?
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(D Z) Dhru Val, modified 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 2:02 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 1:52 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 346 Join Date: 9/18/11 Recent Posts
faraz ahmed:
hmm,
thanks for the advice.

But I dont understand what you mean when you say:
refresh rate

or

refresh your attention.

could you explain what they mean?


Immediately after you notice what your mind is paying attention to.

There is a small taste of mindfulness.

Outside of meditation in the moments when you catch yourself thinking something, or intending something.

That is a small taste of mindfulness.

But it tends to get distracted very quickly.

In insight meditation, your job is to catch the distraction, and once again notice what is happening.

So you keep getting small tastes of mindfulness.

When this is done fast. And repeatedly.

It will disrupts the old habitual patterns of distraction.

This then allows you to gain insight.

So the refresh rate etc. refers to the speed at which you keep getting these small tastes.

Noting helps reduce distraction that comes from by verbal mental activity, by keeping it busy.

(Hope that makes sense)
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Rick M, modified 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 7:20 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 7:20 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 100 Join Date: 1/1/13 Recent Posts
D Z:


More details here (look under overbalanced concentration)...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/mahasi/wheel370.html


Thanks for the tips. I'm not the original poster, but I'm trying to get better at noting myself. However, I didn't see any specific mention of "overbalanced concentration" on that page. Did I miss something, or look in the wrong place?
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Daemon Shockley, modified 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 8:19 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/4/14 8:19 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 24 Join Date: 10/19/09 Recent Posts
Here is how I would explain it:

What you are doing is this..

What you experience | What you do
A .............................. Note A
A .............................. Wait for something that isn't what you think of as A
A .............................. Wait for something that isn't what you think of as A
A .............................. Wait for something that isn't what you think of as A
A .............................. Wait for something that isn't what you think of as A
A .............................. Wait for something that isn't what you think of as A

And what you should do is..

What you experience | What you do
A .............................. Note A
A .............................. Note A
A .............................. Note A
A .............................. Note A
A .............................. Note A
A .............................. Note A

And one reason why is that really you aren't experiencing..

A
A
A
A

But rather

A
a
A
A
A
A
a

All things you call A, but with subtle differences that you are overlooking while you wait.

D Z is suggesting that you switch objects rapidly to teach your mind to see each moment, its easier because it is more obvious, like this...

A
B
A
B
A
B
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/5/14 2:28 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/5/14 2:28 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
umm, I think I get it.
So, I note an object say a sensation
then quickly move to another sensation
or maybe to the rise or fall of the abdomen.
and after noting that, I move on to the my body touching ground
and then to body sitting erect.
and then to some thought that arises
a feeling that arises

So, If there's a kind of waiting period, I
just choose my body touching ground
or the breath instead of waiting.

is that right?
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/9/14 3:59 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/9/14 3:59 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
Thanks guys,
Your replies were very helpful.
I have now understood what is meant by refreshing attention.
I was doing noting while sitting last night.
I was doing the noting sitting erect
and then body touching ground
and kept doing it alternately.
and then kept alternating
with erect , sound, touching, sensation alternately.
sometimes, I would do breathing, breathing, breathing
or sensation , sensation ,sensation
as someone said above how it's not really the same sensation.

I also experimented a little and was noting the feel of my hands
feet, face, etc as sensations
and for a brief moment, I felt like it was all a bunch of vibrations
and nothing else.
Wow!
I was able to sleep easily too.
ah, yes. I remember also noting how my mind was awake
and then later on, nearer to the end of my sitting,
how mind was not feeling as awake as it was before.

so,this really helped.
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(D Z) Dhru Val, modified 10 Years ago at 1/9/14 6:46 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/9/14 6:46 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 346 Join Date: 9/18/11 Recent Posts
faraz ahmed:

hanks guys,
Your replies were very helpful.
I have now understood what is meant by refreshing attention.
I was doing noting while sitting last night.
I was doing the noting sitting erect
and then body touching ground
and kept doing it alternately.
and then kept alternating
with erect , sound, touching, sensation alternately.
sometimes, I would do breathing, breathing, breathing
or sensation , sensation ,sensation
as someone said above how it's not really the same sensation.

I also experimented a little and was noting the feel of my hands
feet, face, etc as sensations
and for a brief moment, I felt like it was all a bunch of vibrations
and nothing else.
Wow!


Good, now you have the basics down. And possibly a brief moment of A&P with the vibrations.

Sincerely and compassionately re-affirm your decision to get stream entry (I would re-affirm everyday). And keep going.

It is time to investigate the 3 Cs (Impermanence, Suffering, No Self).

Start with impermanence.

Have an attitude of curiosity. See if you can find any sensations that are not impermanent.

Particularly investigate the sensations of your body, hands, face, feet etc.

Are they really permanent or fleeting ?

Are there any sensations that are permanent ?

Can any sensations be permanently satisfying ?

Keep posting what happens in your meditation, particularly if you start to feel stuck.
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/9/14 7:51 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/9/14 7:51 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
D Z:


Good, now you have the basics down. And possibly a brief moment of A&P with the vibrations.

Sincerely and compassionately re-affirm your decision to get stream entry (I would re-affirm everyday). And keep going.

It is time to investigate the 3 Cs (Impermanence, Suffering, No Self).

Start with impermanence.

Have an attitude of curiosity. See if you can find any sensations that are not impermanent.

Particularly investigate the sensations of your body, hands, face, feet etc.

Are they really permanent or fleeting ?

Are there any sensations that are permanent ?

Can any sensations be permanently satisfying ?

Keep posting what happens in your meditation, particularly if you start to feel stuck.



Should I do this during sitting?
I am afraid of doing too much at once
and ruining it all.
maybe I will practice this noting for a few days and
then go ahead with impermanence.

or did you mean to note impermanence throughout the day.
I was thinking of just being mindful or noting throughout the day.

what do you think?
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(D Z) Dhru Val, modified 10 Years ago at 1/9/14 8:36 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/9/14 8:31 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 346 Join Date: 9/18/11 Recent Posts
faraz ahmed:

Should I do this during sitting?
I am afraid of doing too much at once
and ruining it all.
maybe I will practice this noting for a few days and
then go ahead with impermanence.


When you saw the flickering / vibrating of the sensations of your body during meditation, that counts as seeing impermanance in Vipassana (daniel's account of it in the link is quite good).

So you have already noticed it.

You just have to notice it more deeply, and with different sensations.

There isn't really a need to change your practice too much.

Just keep going and try to be a bit faster, a bit more attentive to the little shifts etc.

Can you clarify what you mean by being afraid of 'ruining it all' by doing too much ?
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/10/14 4:10 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/10/14 4:10 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
D Z:
faraz ahmed:

Should I do this during sitting?
I am afraid of doing too much at once
and ruining it all.
maybe I will practice this noting for a few days and
then go ahead with impermanence.


When you saw the flickering / vibrating of the sensations of your body during meditation, that counts as seeing impermanance in Vipassana (daniel's account of it in the link is quite good).

So you have already noticed it.

You just have to notice it more deeply, and with different sensations.

There isn't really a need to change your practice too much.

Just keep going and try to be a bit faster, a bit more attentive to the little shifts etc.

Can you clarify what you mean by being afraid of 'ruining it all' by doing too much ?


hmm, okay got it.
And what I meant by "ruining it all by doing too much" was
that I have just started with noting and investigating all at once,
I may not be able to do any of them properly
and thus wont move forward.

for example, last night also I felt very concentrated
but I felt it wasn't as good as the last sitting
the one I told you about.
when I did meditation in the morning,
then I wasn't able to focus properly also
and wasn't able to sit for long.
was feeling restless and was opening my eyes
after about 10 or 15 minutes.
I felt like I was unable to note fast enough
and wasn't really feeling the sensations
or the things I was noting.
but maybe I should just have noted that feeling too.
I dunno.

so, maybe I should first get better at noting
and then try to add investigating to the mix??
what do you think?
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Andrew Mayer, modified 10 Years ago at 1/10/14 9:52 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/10/14 9:52 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 61 Join Date: 11/7/13 Recent Posts
faraz ahmed:

so, maybe I should first get better at noting
and then try to add investigating to the mix??
what do you think?


I'm still working through my own beginner's struggles, but it seems to me that investigation is fundamental to noting. From where I currently sit the curiousity is, in itself, an insight into dissatisfaction.
Without it you can't recognize impermanence and no-self in the sensations.
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/10/14 12:05 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/10/14 12:05 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
Andrew Mayer:
faraz ahmed:

so, maybe I should first get better at noting
and then try to add investigating to the mix??
what do you think?


I'm still working through my own beginner's struggles, but it seems to me that investigation is fundamental to noting. From where I currently sit the curiousity is, in itself, an insight into dissatisfaction.
Without it you can't recognize impermanence and no-self in the sensations.


Hmm, that maybe true.
I will try to do that.

As I was meditating in the morning today,
as well as in the evening I noticed that I wasn't able to keep up
with the noting.
I mean, I was going on noting for a few minutes
and then I noticed that I wasn't noting anymore.
Maybe it was my mind wandering,
but mostly when I came to I noticed that I was just sitting there
and it was sooo calm, but then the desire to note again
and once again I noticed I was just sitting calmly,
then I just stopped meditating.

do you think this happens because of lack of concentration?
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Dream Walker, modified 10 Years ago at 1/10/14 3:23 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/10/14 3:23 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 1759 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
faraz ahmed:
I noticed that I wasn't noting anymore.
Maybe it was my mind wandering,
but mostly when I came to I noticed that I was just sitting there
and it was sooo calm, but then the desire to note again
and once again I noticed I was just sitting calmly


I think that feeling like you are in charge all the time and that noting is the end all be all to meditation is a bit of a fallacy. Noting is a training to strengthen your awareness and to mercilessly investigate what is happening until it is able to investigate things that are not normally seen. Getting to the calm abiding spots along the way are the reward mechanism to keep you interested until SE. Jhanas, altered states, visions, bliss, all these other things can be distractions but are also great motivators....at least for me it has been. Do not assume you are doing it wrong because you can not forever mechanically do what you assume you should do....let go of control and assume it is also a natural process that you can trust in the unique unfolding of your own journey...(jeeze...i sound sooooo hippy right now....how about a high fiber and crystal muffin with wheat grass to go with this... emoticon )
I guess what I'm getting at is that down in the trenches it is not your intellect and ego that are going to get you to SE. In the mean time back to skillful and diligent practice.
Good luck,
~D
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Daemon Shockley, modified 10 Years ago at 1/11/14 1:44 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/11/14 1:44 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 24 Join Date: 10/19/09 Recent Posts
The calmness could also be Dissolution, the drop in energy after the A&P. If it is, Fear should be coming up next. In any case, it's worth remember that even if you do everything perfectly, your going to have really good seeming meditation sessions, and then you'll have less good seeming meditation sessions. I'd recommend trying to see the sensations that make up what you think of as calmness as clearly as possible. That's the important thing.

faraz ahmed:

for example, last night also I felt very concentrated
but I felt it wasn't as good as the last sitting
the one I told you about.
when I did meditation in the morning,
then I wasn't able to focus properly also
and wasn't able to sit for long.
was feeling restless and was opening my eyes
after about 10 or 15 minutes.
I felt like I was unable to note fast enough
and wasn't really feeling the sensations
or the things I was noting.
but maybe I should just have noted that feeling too.
I dunno.


Yes. In my experience, apparent 'inclarity' is just that you aren't experiencing the sensations that you think you should be experiencing. Just pay attention to whatever you actually are experiencing.

I don't know if that makes much sense.. so I'll try to explain with a metaphor. Let's say I gave you a tv and told you to write down whatever you see on it in as much detail as possible. At first you miss many details, but eventually you become good at it. Then you start to get static that gets in the way, and you try to make out the details through the static, but eventually you become frustrated and give up. This is wrong. Don't try to see through the static, just record (or actually, note/notice/investigate) exactly what is there.
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Bailey , modified 10 Years ago at 1/13/14 6:08 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/11/14 10:06 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 267 Join Date: 7/14/11 Recent Posts
2. is it okay if I dont do noting and just do letting be meditation at night? since it activates my brain and causes sleeplessness.


Just fine, choiceless open awareness meditation is great for going to sleep with. It is even possible to pass Nanas during sleep.
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Dream Walker, modified 10 Years ago at 1/12/14 3:49 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/12/14 3:49 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 1759 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Raine .:
2. is it okay if I dont do noting and just do letting be meditation at night? since it activates my brain and causes sleeplessness.

Just fine, choiceless open awareness meditation is great for going to sleep with. It is even possible to pass Nanas during sleep.

I think that some great work can be done in your sleep/dream state. So far my path moments have been while sleeping. I always try to shift up the jhanas while falling asleep. I wake up in altered states so I know stuff is happening. It seems like a freebie to work in dream state so why not?
~D
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/13/14 12:45 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/13/14 12:45 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
hmm, I am not sure if I had reached dissolution although it could be dont know.
anyways, I agree that I should note the inclarity instead of trying to get through it.

I have one more concern.
when I am noting, am I supposed to note fast or can it be slow too.
I mean, I thought it was about noting whatever was arising.
so, If I feel a sensation in my arm, and I note it
but it's still there so do I keep noting it
or do I go to some other part of the body
and note some sensation there.

What I am asking is that do I deliberately try to come up with something
to note, just so I can keep noting fast
or do I just stay with a sensation until it disappears
or until some other sensation/thought/feeling arises
and draws my attention.
so, do I let the sensations decide how fast I note
or do I deliberately try to note fast.

Because I am not sure if I am even noticing the sensations
I am supposed to note.

would love some advice on this.

Daemon Shockley:
The calmness could also be Dissolution, the drop in energy after the A&P. If it is, Fear should be coming up next. In any case, it's worth remember that even if you do everything perfectly, your going to have really good seeming meditation sessions, and then you'll have less good seeming meditation sessions. I'd recommend trying to see the sensations that make up what you think of as calmness as clearly as possible. That's the important thing.

faraz ahmed:

for example, last night also I felt very concentrated
but I felt it wasn't as good as the last sitting
the one I told you about.
when I did meditation in the morning,
then I wasn't able to focus properly also
and wasn't able to sit for long.
was feeling restless and was opening my eyes
after about 10 or 15 minutes.
I felt like I was unable to note fast enough
and wasn't really feeling the sensations
or the things I was noting.
but maybe I should just have noted that feeling too.
I dunno.


Yes. In my experience, apparent 'inclarity' is just that you aren't experiencing the sensations that you think you should be experiencing. Just pay attention to whatever you actually are experiencing.

I don't know if that makes much sense.. so I'll try to explain with a metaphor. Let's say I gave you a tv and told you to write down whatever you see on it in as much detail as possible. At first you miss many details, but eventually you become good at it. Then you start to get static that gets in the way, and you try to make out the details through the static, but eventually you become frustrated and give up. This is wrong. Don't try to see through the static, just record (or actually, note/notice/investigate) exactly what is there.
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Dream Walker, modified 10 Years ago at 1/13/14 2:51 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/13/14 2:51 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 1759 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
faraz ahmed:
I have one more concern.
when I am noting, am I supposed to note fast or can it be slow too.
I mean, I thought it was about noting whatever was arising.
so, If I feel a sensation in my arm, and I note it
but it's still there so do I keep noting it
or do I go to some other part of the body
and note some sensation there.

What I am asking is that do I deliberately try to come up with something
to note, just so I can keep noting fast
or do I just stay with a sensation until it disappears
or until some other sensation/thought/feeling arises
and draws my attention.
so, do I let the sensations decide how fast I note
or do I deliberately try to note fast.

Because I am not sure if I am even noticing the sensations
I am supposed to note.

would love some advice on this.

Where is your attention? Look at where your attention is focused without even trying to pick an object. Your attention is always on something even if it feels like it is on nothing. What makes up the nothing? what makes up the something? is there a start to it?is there an end to it? can you notice it? The content of your "stuff" is not what is important...what makes up the stuff? Look at where your attention is. There will be a sample rate of how much you can notice and how fast your attention moves to the next thing....investigate this. Can you speed it up...how fast? once a second? twice? Find out. do a drum roll with your fingers on the table. How fast can you go and still notice each and every sensation. I have an itch on my arm. attention is on the itch-->.feeling, feeling, feeling,feeling,feeling,feeling,feeling,feeling,thought about feeling--> thinking, thinking,feeling,feeling,feeling,thinking, thinking, attention moves to next thing -->hearing hearing ....ad infinitum
Play with it....notice where your attention goes and follow it.
hope this helps,
Good luck,
~D
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Daemon Shockley, modified 10 Years ago at 1/15/14 2:44 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/15/14 2:44 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 24 Join Date: 10/19/09 Recent Posts
It's not really the same sensation, its a new moment with a similar sensation to the previous moment.. A, A. So you note A twice. (or whatever type of sensation it is). Each time you note it, try to see it clearly at that exact moment, even if you already looked at it a moment ago. Each note is a reminder to pay attention, and to be sure you are looking at it clearly right now, even if it is similar to the moment before.
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Dream Walker, modified 10 Years ago at 1/15/14 10:48 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/15/14 10:48 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 1759 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Daemon Shockley:
It's not really the same sensation, its a new moment with a similar sensation to the previous moment.. A, A. So you note A twice. (or whatever type of sensation it is). Each time you note it, try to see it clearly at that exact moment, even if you already looked at it a moment ago. Each note is a reminder to pay attention, and to be sure you are looking at it clearly right now, even if it is similar to the moment before.

+1
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/15/14 11:52 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/15/14 11:52 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
Daemon Shockley:
It's not really the same sensation, its a new moment with a similar sensation to the previous moment.. A, A. So you note A twice. (or whatever type of sensation it is). Each time you note it, try to see it clearly at that exact moment, even if you already looked at it a moment ago. Each note is a reminder to pay attention, and to be sure you are looking at it clearly right now, even if it is similar to the moment before.


hmm, thanks for clearing it up.


Where is your attention? Look at where your attention is focused without even trying to pick an object. Your attention is always on something even if it feels like it is on nothing. What makes up the nothing? what makes up the something? is there a start to it?is there an end to it? can you notice it? The content of your "stuff" is not what is important...what makes up the stuff? Look at where your attention is. There will be a sample rate of how much you can notice and how fast your attention moves to the next thing....investigate this. Can you speed it up...how fast? once a second? twice? Find out. do a drum roll with your fingers on the table. How fast can you go and still notice each and every sensation. I have an itch on my arm. attention is on the itch-->.feeling, feeling, feeling,feeling,feeling,feeling,feeling,feeling,thought about feeling--> thinking, thinking,feeling,feeling,feeling,thinking, thinking, attention moves to next thing -->hearing hearing ....ad infinitum
Play with it....notice where your attention goes and follow it.
hope this helps,
Good luck,
~D


Okay, I was trying to do what you said.
when I was meditating I noticed where is my attention ,
it was on my face, so I noticed the sensations that I could on the face and noted sensation.
then I felt something in my knee, attention was there I noted pain
attention was on my third eye next, a pressure sensation was there. I noted sensation.
there were similar or identical sensation on third eye in next few moments
and I kept noting sensation.
then attention was on a little below third eye on my nose
and I noted sensation.
similarly for the next few moments ,noted sensation on nose.

near the end of my sit , I was getting restless and noted restless.
there was a wanting to get up and I noted "wanting to get up"
not knowing how to use one word for it.
when there was a distraction or when I got lost in thoughts
I noted distraction and lost in thoughts respectively.

finally those thoughts and feelings of restlessness and wanting to get up
were coming up more and more and finally I got up from my sit
and stopped the session.

so, should I keep going this way?

I have noticed that I am a little more aware during the day too now.
I note when I am walking and note thought that come up
note feeling that come up.
I have also noted that my sleep is much more deeper now.

And someone posted above of passing nanas in their sleep
well, I dunno about that.
all I know is that my sleep is much better now
even when I note before sleeping.
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Daemon Shockley, modified 10 Years ago at 1/16/14 10:25 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/16/14 10:25 AM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 24 Join Date: 10/19/09 Recent Posts
Sounds good. Progress while walking around, going about your day is great. If you want to make serious progress that's an important thing to have.

Make sure to continue to follow the attention closely while noting things like restlessness. For 'wanting to get up', for example, was that a thought, an emotion, or a physical impulse to move. If it's an emotion pay attention to exactly what it feels like, any muscle tensions involved, if it has a location or is generally 'spread around' anything like that. Try to become interested by the specific sensations that make up restlessness.
faraz ahmed, modified 10 Years ago at 1/16/14 1:00 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/16/14 1:00 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 12 Join Date: 12/13/13 Recent Posts
Daemon Shockley:
Sounds good. Progress while walking around, going about your day is great. If you want to make serious progress that's an important thing to have.

Make sure to continue to follow the attention closely while noting things like restlessness. For 'wanting to get up', for example, was that a thought, an emotion, or a physical impulse to move. If it's an emotion pay attention to exactly what it feels like, any muscle tensions involved, if it has a location or is generally 'spread around' anything like that. Try to become interested by the specific sensations that make up restlessness.


hmm, and the way I was noting and doing the attention thing was okay too?

as for 'wanting to get up', It was not exactly a thought
not sure what it was exactly,
seemed like an emotion or maybe a physical feeling.
there was definitely a physical aspect of it,
but all I could make out was restlessness and wanting to get up.

maybe i just put a label on it without being able to note it properly.
will try to look into the specific sensations in my next sitting.
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Daemon Shockley, modified 10 Years ago at 1/16/14 9:28 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/16/14 9:07 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 24 Join Date: 10/19/09 Recent Posts
faraz ahmed:

Okay, I was trying to do what you said.
when I was meditating I noticed where is my attention ,
it was on my face, so I noticed the sensations that I could on the face and noted sensation.
then I felt something in my knee, attention was there I noted pain
attention was on my third eye next, a pressure sensation was there. I noted sensation.
there were similar or identical sensation on third eye in next few moments
and I kept noting sensation.
then attention was on a little below third eye on my nose
and I noted sensation.
similarly for the next few moments ,noted sensation on nose.



faraz ahmed:

hmm, and the way I was noting and doing the attention thing was okay too?


This sounds good to me emoticon
Dream Walker?

faraz ahmed:

as for 'wanting to get up', It was not exactly a thought
not sure what it was exactly,
seemed like an emotion or maybe a physical feeling.
there was definitely a physical aspect of it,
but all I could make out was restlessness and wanting to get up.

maybe i just put a label on it without being able to note it properly.
will try to look into the specific sensations in my next sitting.


You didn't do anything wrong, it's just part of the normal progress.

Pretty much every experience can be broken down into smaller sensations (Those vibrations you mentioned before). Our brain makes stories out of sensations, its part of its function. You are learning to see past the stories, to see the smallest sensations. It's easiest to do when everything is very neutral.. because then there is no story our brain thinks of as 'important' to distract from the sensations. Something like restlessness the brain thinks of as 'important', it believes that you need to do something to fix it. So its perfectly natural that it will take more work to start to break it up. Because of this, when you have an experience you tend to view as 'good' or 'bad', pay extra attention and try to see the details. Then you will eventually learn to note these details separately.

Another advantage of this, is next time you feel restless, you will have something interesting to work on with it, so that might help keep it from getting in your way emoticon
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Dream Walker, modified 10 Years ago at 1/16/14 11:55 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/16/14 11:55 PM

RE: Unable to note properly. goal - stream entry

Posts: 1759 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Daemon Shockley:
faraz ahmed:

Okay, I was trying to do what you said.
when I was meditating I noticed where is my attention ,
it was on my face, so I noticed the sensations that I could on the face and noted sensation.
then I felt something in my knee, attention was there I noted pain
attention was on my third eye next, a pressure sensation was there. I noted sensation.
there were similar or identical sensation on third eye in next few moments
and I kept noting sensation.
then attention was on a little below third eye on my nose
and I noted sensation.
similarly for the next few moments ,noted sensation on nose.



faraz ahmed:

hmm, and the way I was noting and doing the attention thing was okay too?


This sounds good to me emoticon
Dream Walker?

It's a great start, see how it works for you...could be simplified if you so desire to just the 6 senses-
'seen'
'heard'
'felt'
'tasted'
'smelled'
'thought'

With practice it is simple enough that that you never fumble for a noting term...improves the speed too.
check out this thread..--->Will noting with verbs strengthen the illusion of self? Great info and follow the links.
Daemon Shockley:

faraz ahmed:

as for 'wanting to get up', It was not exactly a thought
not sure what it was exactly,
seemed like an emotion or maybe a physical feeling.
there was definitely a physical aspect of it,
but all I could make out was restlessness and wanting to get up.

maybe i just put a label on it without being able to note it properly.
will try to look into the specific sensations in my next sitting.


You didn't do anything wrong, it's just part of the normal progress.

Pretty much every experience can be broken down into smaller sensations (Those vibrations you mentioned before). Our brain makes stories out of sensations, its part of its function. You are learning to see past the stories, to see the smallest sensations. It's easiest to do when everything is very neutral.. because then there is no story our brain thinks of as 'important' to distract from the sensations. Something like restlessness the brain thinks of as 'important', it believes that you need to do something to fix it. So its perfectly natural that it will take more work to start to break it up. Because of this, when you have an experience you tend to view as 'good' or 'bad', pay extra attention and try to see the details. Then you will eventually learn to note these details separately.

Another advantage of this, is next time you feel restless, you will have something interesting to work on with it, so that might help keep it from getting in your way emoticon
Great advice Daemon.

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