Account termination

Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
My work here is over.
Is there a way to terminate my account? (Don't delete it as yet; I would want to save some of the posts before exiting).
​​​​​​​Thanks.
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Ni Nurta, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 737 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
This discussion board is not only for asking question, making declarations of attainment and then arguing who has bigger vehicle but also sharing interesting experiences and posting obscure confusing advice to people.

In any way at least check with God if that is such a good idea to leave this shangha. You see how people are there and people come here for advice... It is scary emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 2014 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Don't go. Nothing is certain. Be well. 
Sam Gentile, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1289 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Mike,

​​​​​​​I'd encourage you not to go either. I have learned from your posts. And I think you could continue to make a contribution as your path unfolds.
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Sam, I don't foresee having anything else to say. If I do, I can always create a new account.
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Moderator(s) / Ingram --

Would appreciate it if you can let me know if there is a way to delete my account here.
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Chris Marti, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 4009 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I know of no way for me or you to delete your DhO account. The best I can do is lock you out of DhO. However, Mike, you can delete all your own posts if you want to put in that kind of time. You have 193 of them. After that one of us can lock you out and that would be the next best thing to being deleted entirely.

I defer to Daniel Ingram on the easy account deletion method you seek.
Georg S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 31 Join Date: 12/8/19 Recent Posts
https://help.liferay.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017895152-Adding-Editing-and-Deleting-Users#deleting-users

maybe this link is of any help. it explains how to deactivate and delete a user in liferay.
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Chris Marti, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 4009 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
There are many levels of permissions on DhO. Some individuals have all of them. Thus my referral.

(And thanks for assuming I'm unaware of the Liferay manuals.)
Georg S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 31 Join Date: 12/8/19 Recent Posts
Chris Marti
There are many levels of permissions on DhO. Some individuals have all of them. Thus my referral.

(And thanks for assuming I'm unaware of the Liferay manuals.)

Having a bad day? Or why are you so offensive Chris (I refer to your deleted post)? 
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Chris, sounds good, I can delete all posts. I'll let you know. There's only one caveat: The threads I started, I cannot delete the first post. I'm editing them to make them empty. In the current DhO format, this will result in all those posts coming to the top of the list. As I already see, 2 of the threads that I started have almost reached the top. The posts which are not root posts I'm deleting, and I don't know if this would lead to my posts reaching the top of the list of recent messages. Thanks for your help.

Edit: I just checked -- even when I delete a post, the thread shows up at the top of discussions list. 

I'll wait for Ingram for a few days to respond if he has a better way. Else, all of you would have to bear with those posts at the top of the discussions list where I have responded. 
Georg S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 31 Join Date: 12/8/19 Recent Posts
You're welcome. Always expect the unexpected ;-)
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1909 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Sorry "Georg S", when I changed my name to "George S" I was trying to distinguish myself from new user "george" and didn't realize that you were already onboard!
Georg S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 31 Join Date: 12/8/19 Recent Posts
Hi namesake Georgeemoticon When you startet posting under George S I first thought, oh, I have been hacked. Then I read some of your posts and thought. Oh, not to bad - I was hacked by a nice person;-) Then I realized the "e" in the Georgeemoticon

(And sorry for flooding this thread Mike).
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Stirling Campbell, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 602 Join Date: 3/13/16 Recent Posts
Mike,

I appreciate your interest in disappearing, but I must say your method for doing so is keeping you decidedly fixed in consciousness.

Why not leave it all here and just go? It is entirely possible that your questions or path could be a raft someone one else, somewhere down the line, and then we could indeed let you disappear from THIS point of view. 
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Stirling,

I've answered this as a response to Chris, but I repeat:

My sole purpose was account termination, I don't care if my posts remain here or not. When I asked if there is a way to delete my account, I was told by Chris that he does not know of any, but that he can lock me out, or that I can delete my posts and then get locked out. I took the second option, no deep reason for it, other than when I move, I prefer to take my trash along with me. In part I also feel that posts best serve a purpose in real time -- I have never gone back in time to look for someone else's posts from the past. But I repeat, there's no deep reason to do this.

I saw your message only after having deleted a majority of my posts. Agreed, my posts can be useful to someone else. As I said, again as a response to Chris, I have saved 8 of my most important threads (as PDFs) and am happy to send them to anyone and they can be re-posted if desirable (I don't know of a way to post PDFs, otherwise, I'd be happy to do so myself if the consensus would be that they be posted again).
​​​​​​​
Mike.
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Ni Nurta, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 737 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Mike, you forgot people quoted you at places so if you want to have all your words deleted then it will require also asking each person who quoted you to edit their posts to erase quoted text emoticon
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1909 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Would be easier to change name.
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Siavash ', modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1359 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
  Changing name won't change the previous name in the quoted posts.

Maybe it is easier to just let go?

Afterall, All of our words here are just some frequencies inside a metal box in a cold room in nowhere. Not that important!
  
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Chris Marti, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 4009 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Mike, I'm not going to go through all that work just so that you can delete a few of your posts. I'm a volunteer here. I have a real job and I do this DhO thing as a way to give back. When it starts to become a chore, and people take advantage, I'm out.

Sorry, but along the lines of what Sterling just posted, I think you're going a tad over the top on this.

Maybe you can convince another moderator or Daniel Ingram to do this for you.
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Chris -
If you recall, deleting all my posts was suggested by you. Anyway - after 48 hours, go ahead, lock my account - again, as suggested by you - and if this is also a chore now, let me know and you don’t have to do it.
I should also add — account termination is not an unusual request And this is what I had asked for — just that you guys don’t have a way of doing it or don't want to put in the effort to do it or have other ulterior motives (like not wanting other people to ask for the same resulting causing increased effort on your part or a reduced subscription count for the same) -- and I'll leave it to you to figure out if you're interested what the precise reasons are, it's not something that interests me.
Mike

PS. And let me show you some numbers. I have not counted, but unless I've missed some thread to delete my posts, there are at least 30 posts of mine still remaining in the threads I mentioned. That is 15% of the original number, not "few'' by any standards. And since you're suggesting that "I'm taking advantage" and that "I'm a tad over the top", let me offer to you, some pieces of unsolicited advice:
1. Check your own motives
2. Don't offer a suggestion to people to do something, and if they do it, make it their fault that they did it or are trying to do it
3. Don't say what you don't mean

PPS. And if you think that I'm taking advantage because I'm deleting the posts that I have written, you're mistaken. I've saved 8 of the most important threads that I started/responded to in their entirety. You or anyone else are welcome to have them and re-post them if you desire as such. My only goal here was account deletion since I have nothing more to say and in part because I don't want to be part of the general, what I find bordering on abusive speech culture of this place much longer (I don't care if my posts remain or not) and it is you who suggested that I can delete my own posts.  And if you think I'm being selfish because I don't want to advise people, well, that's just not my style, it has nothing to do with selfishness or unselfishness. Once in a while, I'll respond to someone's post, but if you noticed in the past, the number of such instances were rather small. Whatever thoughts I had, whatever resources I knew of, have all been written in the posts that I wrote selflessly so people can read them if they desire (of course, there were the other reasons of clarifying my own thinking and getting good commentary on occasion), that is as much as I can do for them. And finally, look at the kind of responses that I got on the last thread -- I said, I'm at the end of questions -- and most of the responses that I got were basically saying, you're deluded. Only Tim Farrington ended up making a positive statement. In your words, ``What's for dinner?'' If this is the state of affairs, why would you want me to try to advise someone here anyway (in case this is the reason you thought I was being selfish, that I was leaving) considering that all except one response that I got believe me to be deluded? And if the general culture of the place is to thrash someone down even if they believe that the other person is being truthful, why do you think anyone should stay once their own job is done? 
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1909 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Speaking personally Mike, some of the most valuable replies I got on here were when people were basically telling me that I was deluded. emoticon The capacity for self-delusion in this business is extremely high, and honesty about that is what attracted me to MCTB and this forum. No one is safe from that kind of feedback here, not even Chris or Daniel. Most of us want to help others, but it's natural also to want confirmation of our supposed attainments and feel hurt when we don't get the response we wanted or expected (speaking for myself at least) ... and that feeling hurt might be telling us something about our attachment to our attainments. Sure the culture is a bit fratty at times, but to my mind that's the price you pay for coming to a place where you know you'll get critical feedback from all sorts of people and which won't just rubber-stamp your attainments. emoticon
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
George -

In that case, what I would expect people to do is: 
1. Read my posts
2. Point out precisely the flaw in my arguments
3. Talk to me to figure out what I'm saying if my posts are not clear
4. Then give feedback

Did any of this happen from anyone of you on my post "The end of questions?" What I got was name calling, not critical feedback. It was mostly people jumping to conclusions with their own pre-conceived notions. Thus, I ended the post by saying, it's my last response on the post. Done.
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1909 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I read your posts pretty carefully and devoted some time to giving the best feedback I could (apart from my initial reply which was a bit snarky - sorry for that). The flaw in your argument as far as I understand it is that you are claiming attainment of a permanent state (god in the center of the heart), whereas I'm saying that all states are impermanent.
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
George -

Firstly, I had cut you off right after your first set of responses. But any way, let's continue.

You've incorrectly understood what I'm saying.

At the beginning of my post, there was the logic part. That explains why, I've reached the end of questions. In short, there's no time, space, causality, (in particular, no re-birth), and thus, nothing at all to be done in the first place even though it takes work to come to this conclusion (all this explanation being in the realm of time, space, and causality).

Then there was the intuition part, where, yes, I've experienced the Brahman in the heart.  Correct. How does it matter if it's permanent or impermanent. These words anyway are in the realm of time, which is just a constructed experience based on the faculties. I did say, maybe this intuition of the Brahman is the real reason why I've come to the end of questions. I don't exactly know how this works -- it's an intuition, nor do I care -- point is, there is no time, space, causality, and thus, there's nothing to be done.  (I should add, one of the reason this experience of Brahman/God helps is because in the realm of time, space, and causality, it gives me a way to live out the rest of my life. There might be other reasons, I don't know and I don't care). Here is a bit of repetition: Further, I should add about this experience, that Brahman is an intuitve experience which I can't describe. I find it difficult to attribute any words to it. You say it is impermanent. I have no idea why. I'd suggest again, read the Upanishads to know what they say about the Brahman -- my hunch here is that you've some preconceived notions which are different from what I'm saying. 

But anyway, let's keep this talk about Brahman aside. Point is, it's basic logic. People on this forum don't get logic because it's supposed to be all about experience. I differ.

Now, find the flaw in my logic. In one sentence, the logic is: If time, space, causality are just the construction of human faculties, why is there anything to be done or any state to be achieved (permanent or impermanent) by any of us? All I needed to do was to come to this simple conclusion, which, in the realm of time, space, and causality, took 20 years or so. AND THIS I POSE AS A CHALLENGE TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE. FIND A FLAW WITH WHAT I AM SAYING IN THIS PARAGRAPH.
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1909 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Mike, your logic is impeccable. Time, space and causality are constructs of the mind ... so nothing to be done, nowhere to go, no one to go there, no special states required, no more questions, simply this ... and this ... and this

And yet ... life goes on. We still find ourselves getting defensive or angry, hurt or sad ... whether we head into the mountains or return to the plains. Your presence here has been a real blessing and I wish you all the best, whatever you decide to do.

Sincerely,
George 
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
George --
​​​​​​​Agreed, that life still goes on, and that's where God/Brahman tells me how to live -- by God's will.
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Chris -

I would also like to ask you (no response expected): Is is also part of your volunteering job to make deep comments like "What's for dinner?" and (something like, I don't remember exactly), "You're only getting wee wee responses" -- the latter being said when you were a moderator?
Or is it supposed to be just friendly banter? Or is it something that one should be willing to accept/tolerate?
FYI: I'm also a volunteer, though not on this website. I don't go around telling people "I do it as a way to give back" or "if it starts becoming a chore". I consider it a blessing that I have the opportunity to volunteer and take the heat, to the best of my abilities, that comes along with it.

Mike.
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Chris Marti, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 4009 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I think I touched a nerve, Mike. I accept your criticism.

​​​​​​​I find that it's generally true that we get angry when someone disagrees with us, and that generates hostility toward those people. It's a major source of pain and anguish. So I get where you're coming from.

​​​​​​​emoticon
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Chris - 
Thanks. Look, I appreciate what you do here. Moderating is a thankless job. So is maintaining the whole liferay thing.  
I appreciate all of you who keep this place running, even with all its faults. And I have gotten much out of being here.
Mike.

Edit: You've added a second sentence. It'd help if you elaborate. Who is disagreeing with whom? Which occasion are you talking about in particular? Or are you talking generally? Who is getting angry? If you think, I am, you're mistaken. I'm irritated by your responses and those of a bunch of other people, that'd be a better characterization. 

PS. And let me pre-empt a thought that many might have. Since I'm getting irritated, I'm not at the end of the path. Well, I said, I'm at the end of questions (and the end of steps - meaning nothing more for me to do and there was nothing really to do ever, but more things might happen in the current experience of time -- language really can't explain because language lies in the realm of time, space, causality). Why I've reached the end of questions, I've already explained the logic.
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Chris Marti, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 4009 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Okay, Mike.
genaro, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 80 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
"Now, find the flaw in my logic. In one sentence, the logic is: If time, space, causality are just the construction of human faculties, why is there anything to be done or any state to be achieved (permanent or impermanent) by any of us? All I needed to do was to come to this simple conclusion, which, in the realm of time, space, and causality, took 20 years or so. 
AND THIS I POSE AS A CHALLENGE TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE. FIND A FLAW WITH WHAT I AM SAYING IN THIS PARAGRAPH."

OK i accept your challenge.  Hey i can be wrong but at least i'll try.

Because even though/if time space and causality are just the construction of human faculties we can end up in a position where we can relate to these and other things in a more skillful manner.

Space and time i agree are constructions, but despite that the universe is out there, we could for example invent some other variant. Trad christian doctine for example have space and time starting approx 4004 BC. Einstein has time (and space) as relative, and allows for the possibbility for things to happen in a different sequence for different observers, yet it all still happens.


Not sure i agree about causality though, esp if you follow the idea of dependant origination, but we'll have to agree to disagree about that as I'm not wanting to get into an argument about theology.

Also i think Daniel wrote something about 'already there models', but i haven't got the time to dig it out right now.
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Genero - I don't quite agree with Ingram. That said, it is possible that Ingram and I are saying the same thing because I'm saying that in the realm of time, space and causality, it took me 20 years to get to this simple conclusion, so in that sense, there was work to be done.

OK, let's just start with time being a construction. If time is a construction, why is there anything to be done or achieved? 

Plus look at the second part of the logic in THE FINAL CHALLENGE post: If time, space, causality exist independently of human faculties, then the Majjhima Nikaya model of kamma and rebirth leads to absurd conclusions, thus, kamma and rebirth don't hold, thus there is nothing to be done along the Buddhist path. Your argument was to provide a different model of rebirth, but logic I don't buy.
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1909 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
If there is nothing to be done, then why the need to prove it and set yourself up in a position where you have to defend it? This craving for certainty suggests that you still have doubts in your heart of hearts, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. I feel your pain Mike, I really do.
Mike Smirnoff, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 77 Join Date: 2/6/20 Recent Posts
Even the Buddha challenged others by going into their den. You mean to say, he still had doubts in his heart of hearts?
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1909 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
No, but he could still feel pain.
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Chris Marti, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 4009 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
If time, space, causality exist independently of human faculties, then the Majjhima Nikaya model of kamma and rebirth leads to absurd conclusions, thus, kamma and rebirth don't hold, thus there is nothing to be done along the Buddhist path. Your argument was to provide a different model of rebirth, but logic I don't buy.

There is a mysteriousness to the universe and our experience of it that evades the kind of logic the human brain prefers. Things we experience can be both more and less than they immediately appear. Absurd conclusions are often the result of applying the logic of one domain to a domain that doesn't use the same kind of logic. For example, I could assert that there is no "Chris" here at all. In the "ultimate" or "absolute" domain this is the case. But there are clearly a series of processes and a specific physical presence that we call "Chris", which allows us to navigate the universe, apply names to and classify things (objects), in the "relative" domain. There is a unique "Chris" that we assume exists. So if you switch domains and apply the logic of the absolute domain to the relative domain, you will sound silly, maybe even insane. And vice-versa. The tricky part is that there aren't really two separate domains. We live in the indeterminate confluence of the absolute and the relative, all the time. So while from the absolute domain we say things like "time, space and causality are imaginary constructs," we have to contort our view for that to be "true" in a universal manner, "across" domains. We have to accept only the logic of the absolute because, in the relative view, time, space, and causality all exist and are all very useful. 

Nagarjuna, you know.

I'm inserting a different view (my own and that of others I know) into  this apparent dilemma, which I don't actually believe to be a dilemma if we can see the two-sided nature of our existence.
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genaro, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 80 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
... don't want usurp yr argument Chris, just wanted to mention that i'd started writing the stuff below thinking Mike was interested in physical evidence, and to my mind at least there's a parallel with what you just wrote.  I didn't quite manage to express the thing about logic and domains though, well done!


Time is a construction that we use to understand the world around us/ our perceptions.  It has no existance, there's no such thing as a 'chronon'  (at least according to current understanding). Likewise logic is a construction yet here we are using it.  It doesn't exist, any more (or less) than time.

I'll try a metaphor: quantum mechanics describes a strange world where causality does not apply.   Yet QM and Relativity (which has causality) are stunningly accurate and so far impossible to refute but cannot be reconciled, not even by using logic.  But I'm typing this in on a machine that uses real world mechanics (physical keys) and QM devices (transistors). 

I deny that only one view of existance is complete.  There just might be a different view of reality where there is value in doing things.   
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Chris Marti, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 4009 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Yeah.

Simply put, time, space, and causality are and are not true - the "not two" nature of our experience.

​​​​​​​emoticon
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Account termination

Posts: 1909 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Yeah it's a bit scary when you realize that logic is "just speech" ... speaking as someone that has studied mathematical logic emoticon

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